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The RFS US Representative spends a memorable
day with one of his teenage idols
Forrest Patten Meets Roger Williams
What can I say? I've been a fan of Roger Williams ever since
my Dad brought home a copy of his Kapp album BORN FREE back
in 1967. As a budding pianist, I was looking for examples
of popular songs of the day that I could pick up on and include
in my own performance repertoire. Hearing Roger play, I realized
almost instantly that he just doesn't "play a song"; he interprets
the music in a very special way. That's what sets him a part
from other musicians. He doesn't need to put on a splashy,
Liberace-like stage show. When he performs in concert, his
playing is all one needs to be instantly transported. From
the stage, he talks to you like an old friend.
Whether one listens to his solo performance of "You'll Never
Walk Alone" (the lead track from his very first 1955 Kapp
LP THE BOY NEXT DOOR PLAYS FOR THE GIRL NEXT DOOR) to his
dream-like interpretation of the theme from Disney's "Beauty
And The Beast" (included on the recent Reader's Digest CD
titled ROGER WILLIAMS PLAYS YOUR ALL-TIME FAVORITES), one
will immediately recognize that time has not diminished his
musical talent and artistry.
Roger has played for audiences in such venues as the Hollywood
Bowl, Las Vegas casinos, The White House in Washington D.C.,
all the way to Carnegie Hall in New York. He has been the
recipient of 18 gold records. He is the first pianist to have
a star on the Hollywood Walk Of Fame. The Steinway Piano Company
created a limited edition piano in his name (the first in
their 153 year history), plus bestowed their Steinway Lifetime
Achievement Award in his honor. Roger travels the country
promoting Public Television (PBS) by appearing on their fundraiser
telethons. As an advocate for music in schools, he also performs
12 to 14 hour piano marathons to raise public awareness. He
can play an estimated 10,000 songs by memory.
With all of the accolades he's received, Roger Williams is
one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. He doesn't like
to be put up on a pedestal, and actually wants to put people
at ease the minute he meets them. He is very grateful for
all of the things that have happened throughout his life and
career.
On June 7, 2009 we caught up with Roger on the campus of
Monterey Peninsula College on California's central coast.
He granted this exclusive interview for the Robert Farnon
Society and Journal Into Melody.
FP: Roger, thank you for joining us today. I’d
like to start out with the obvious question that you’ve
probably been asked many, many times. What’s the story
behind your trademark song, Autumn Leaves?
RW: Autumn Leaves started with a call from my record
company on a Friday night. They said that they were recording
Jane Morgan on Monday. She only had three songs ready. They
asked me if I knew Autumn Leaves and I said don’t
you mean Falling Leaves (because I didn’t even
know the title)? So I stayed up Friday, Saturday and Sunday
night until I was able to get the arrangement to Marty Gold.
Jane came in the next day with a baseball bat over her shoulder
wearing shorts and a blouse that went out to here! She was
gorgeous. I don’t think that the orchestra watched their
music during the entire recording session. When she got through,
there were only eleven minutes left. They said they didn’t
even have enough time to rehearse the song (Autumn Leaves),
so let’s just record it. So I just sat down at a piano
I had never played on; sat on a bench I had never sat on and
went on through. Believe it or not it turned out great except
that it was three minutes and three seconds long. In those
days, a disc jockey would never play any record that was over
three minutes long. So from the control room, they said that
they had time to record one more take. They asked if I could
play the piece a bit faster, which I did. It came in at 2:59.
I went home and in my fondest dream, I hoped that this record
would pay the rent for the last two months (which we owed.)
We had a baby daughter (Laura) at the time, and they were
ready to throw us out of our apartment. That song has been
paying the rent ever since. You just never know.
FP: In addition to the piano part, you also did the
orchestral arrangement?
RW: I put the arrangement together on Sunday night.
I will give the orchestrator a piece of music and I’ll
put the chords on it and the bass notes that I want. Then
I’ll say where I want the trumpet section to come in
and where I want the violins to play, and so forth. They go
ahead and copy all the parts for the orchestra and give it
to the musicians. I actually arrange everything that I do.
FP: You’ve had some many wonderful hits over
the years. Besides Autumn Leaves, there have been songs
like Almost Paradise, Maria, Lara’s Theme and
more recently, The Rose and the theme from Somewhere
In Time. Do you select the items that you record, or does
the record company come to you with a list of songs that they
want recorded?
RW: That’s a particular talent that the head
of the record company (David Kapp) had. I remember when he
came to me with a song called The Impossible Dream.
I listened to it but told him I personally liked Dulcinea
from that show (Man Of La Mancha). So I recorded Dulcinea
and he gave The Impossible Dream to Jack Jones! I remember
something that Frank Sinatra once told me. Before the song
Nature Boy was ever recorded, they brought it to him
first. He thought it was just "another song", so
they gave it to Nat King Cole. Sinatra regretted it ever since.
FP: Going back to the idea of arrangements, I’ve
always enjoyed your rendition of Lara’s Theme
from ‘Dr. Zhivago’. How did you create that particular
arrangement?
RW: I have to fall in love with the music like I did
with Somewhere In Time. I fell in love with Maurice
Jarre’s score for ‘Dr. Zhivago.’ It was the
first time that I had ever seen adultery treated in a kind
way. Zhivago was happily married with children. His wife was
a sweetheart. But while his was working, he found this girl
and fell in love. These things happen in life and we’re
very harsh to judge people. I never cheated on my wives, but
I have great compassion for those who fall in love with others,
even sometimes within a marriage. It’s tough on them.
They pay the price. Zhivago certainly paid the price. I love
that movie. I’ll never forget when she left in the sleigh
as they were taking her away. He looked out the window and
knew that was to be the last time that he would ever see her.
And I thought of that when I made the arrangement.
FP: You’ve worked with some of the finest conductors
over the years. If we can, for a moment, let’s pay homage
to the likes of Frank Hunter, Marty Gold, Glenn Osser, Hal
Kanner and Ralph Carmichael.
RW: Frank Hunter considered Robert Farnon to be the
greatest arranger in the whole world. He got every record
that he ever made. He also said that he hoped that one day
he could arrange like Farnon. I told him that he was doing
it now and that he was great. Frank and I did a lot of sessions
together, but I never was able to work with Robert Farnon.
I never got over to England and he never got over to where
I was at the time. Marty Gold is such a wonderful man. He
still calls me and is still alive. Unfortunately, a number
of the conductors I’ve worked with over the years are
gone. Marty always had a "feel" for what I did.
You mentioned earlier that I make you "feel" when
you hear me play. Evidently, I make certain orchestrators
and arrangers "feel". They sort of meld in with
what I’m doing and those are the guys I’m looking
for.
Glenn Osser was the conductor on Autumn Leaves. He
was the one who was working on the Jane Morgan session so
they just threw him in over the weekend. Hal Kanner was quite
a guy. We did a lot of sessions together. Ralph Carmichael
is probably the greatest Christian music orchestrator that
has ever lived. I don’t know how many religious albums
he’s made. He does beautiful things and has tremendous
feeling. When we work together, he follows everything that
I do. He holds everyone back and everything works.
FP: Roger, when you perform in various venues today,
who’s your conductor of choice?
RW: Well, I can’t say it’s my "conductor
of choice". It’s me. I conduct.
FP: During the last couple of years, Reader’s
Digest has allowed you to go back into the studio to do some
new recordings with a full orchestra. Some are brand
new recordings of more recent songs. Some are re-recordings
of some of your earlier work. How did the relationship with
Reader’s Digest come to be?
RW: They came and asked me to do an album and I said
fine. They then asked if I’d like to work with a symphony
orchestra in London? So I went over and we did the whole thing
there. It turned out great. Ralph Carmichael went with me
and did all the arranging. We worked with the finest British
musicians.
FP: Your daughter Laura has described you as one of
the very first fusion musicians. In other words,
you combine classical with jazz and everything in-between.
In today’s musical world people, in many cases, have
become either hardcore classical or hardcore jazz fans. I
have to ask you. When you perform today, do you get the hardcore
classical crowd asking you why you incorporate jazz into your
pieces? Conversely, do the hardcore jazz fans ask why you
include classical stylings? Overall, is it hard to present
a concert today where the audience seems to be locked into
a particular musical genre?
RW: I hate to put labels on anything. I hate to put
labels on religion. I especially hate to put labels on music.
I was thrown out of Drake University (in Iowa) one time because
I played Smoke Gets In Your Eyes for my girlfriend
in the practice room. The head of the piano department walked
in and said "We don’t do that here. We play Bach,
Beethoven and Brahms". So I was out. I’ve always
had a feeling that I’d like to bring all sorts of music
to people. I want them to appreciate it all. I listen to everything.
Rap is a little hard for me. Actually, we’ve taken music
out of the schools and kids don’t have any kind of an
education. When I was in grade school, we had to put our head
on the desk and listen to Walter Damrosch and the New York
Philharmonic every week for half an hour. Half of us went
to sleep, but we got a good music education. Kids don’t
have that now. They don’t have it in the schools. It’s
really tough. So kids have gone back to the most basic music
there is which is a beat and a chant. Now that describes Rap
and Hip-Hop. It’s like they have three chords in the
whole thing and the rest is just a chant and a repetitive
phrase over and over.
FP: Let’s switch gears for a moment. Many people
might not be aware that you have performed for just about
every U. S. President since Harry Truman. I’ve always
considered music to be a "window to the soul." I’m
curious to know if any of the Presidents have requested a
particular piece of music to be played, or have they shared
their favorite musical genre with you?
RW: Yes. One of my favorite Presidents was the first
one I played for, Harry Truman. I played for him for nearly
an hour and he asked for everything from Bach to Shostokovich.
He had studied piano as a child. I didn’t know that.
And when I got through, he said "Now Roger, I’m
going to play for you". I thought he was going to play
the Missouri Waltz or something like that. He sat down
and played Chopin’s C-Minor Waltz. There were
a couple of little goofs in the middle, but he played it beautifully.
And when he finished, I said "Mr. President, you would
have made a great pianist." And boy, he just snapped
back at me and said "You know, a hell of a lot of people
wish I would have stuck with it!" And then he winked
at me and said "When I first started to play, I had a
choice of being a whore-house pianist or a politician. Many
times I’ve felt that I made the wrong decision in the
present." He had a tough time. He had to drop that bomb
on millions of people in Japan. I asked him whether it bothered
him? He said "I sleep well at night because I know all
of the American lives I’ve saved." The Japanese
were ready to give their very lives to the last moment when
we went over there. He continued by saying "I saved a
lot of American lives. They elected me President, and that’s
what my job was."
FP: There’s also a very poignant story that you
have about John F. Kennedy and the day that he was assassinated
in November, 1963. Would you share that with us?
RW: He collected a lot of my albums and he used to
have this little portable record player that he’d carry
with him. The night before his death, he and Jackie had checked
into this hotel in Forth Worth, Texas. The next morning, he
put my record of Yellow Bird on the turntable and played
it while he was shaving. Jackie was getting ready for that
big parade. They were both really excited about it. Following
the assassination, they told me that Yellow Bird was
the last music that he ever heard. So when you make these
records, you have no idea how they’ll end up. You just
make them.
FP: Tell us what happened to you in New Orleans.
RW: I went to New Orleans to play with the symphony
down there. I had made a recording of the song Temptation
that was never played on the radio. Following a concert I
gave on Saturday night, we went down to the French Quarter
and all of a sudden, I heard Temptation coming out
from one of the strip joints. I thought "gee whiz!"
We went in and here was this girl taking off her clothes to
my recording! I asked the waitress who the girl was. She answered,
"That’s Roger Williams! We have Johnny Carson coming
on right after her." Every one of these girls took the
name of someone that they admired. And "Roger" came
over to the table and told me that she really loved my music.
I told her that I had a matinee the following day and to bring
her boyfriend (which she did). Again, you never know when
you do these things how they’re going to end up and who’s
going to play them. That’s one of the great thrills and
one of the great shocks being a musician.
FP: Let’s focus on some of the newer artists
that you’re working with. I’ve seen your name mentioned
with the likes of Chick Corea, David Foster, and David Benoit.
What’s going on there?
RW: I listen to everybody and I admire so many of
these musicians. I think that Chick Corea is one of the great,
great musicians of our century. He mentioned in an interview
that "he’d give anything for my left hand."
I told Chick that I’d trade my left hand for his left
brain. He’s so creative. Beethoven was commented that
he stole from everybody. So do I! Sometimes just a couple
of little notes will give me a whole new path to go on. As
for David Foster, I wouldn’t do a session unless he was
on second piano. I asked David Benoit to "round out the
edges of this square." I told him that I’ve been
playing the same things for years and asked him for a few
new ideas. He’s a wonderful man.
FP: Another "Roger Williams trademark" is
your long association with the Steinway piano company. I understand
that Steinway has put out a limited edition Roger Williams
piano.
RW: Up to now, they’ve never put out a
piano with an artist’s name on it. Horowitz had his own
Steinway piano that he loved. So did Rubinstein and all the
great artists. But they made one for me, which is wonderful.
And they presented me with their first lifetime achievement
award. So, they’ve been very good to me and I’m
very loyal to people that I like.
FP: Earlier, we were discussing the demise of music
education in the schools. You’re involved with piano
"marathons" to create awareness of this sorry situation.
Please tell us about that.
RW: I just play for 12 to 14 hours at a time. I’m
trying to get people interested in getting music back into
the schools again. And they really listen. I make little speeches
about it. Ronald Reagan was a dear friend. We started at the
same radio station. But he did one thing. He took music out
of the schools. His reason at the time was because we were
in the "cold war" with Russia. He felt that we needed
a bunch of scientists. Other governors around the country
saw how much money he was saving, so they followed his direction.
It really hurt.
FP: With the sorry state of the current economy worldwide,
is there anything that we can do to improve the situation,
musically speaking?
RW: I don’t know. The people that last are the
survivors. I’m old enough to remember when Vaudeville
went out. Suddenly thousands of entertainers were out of work.
The movies came in. Very few Vaudeville artists survived.
George Burns and Bob Hope are examples. But most fell by the
wayside. This is life. I have no allusions about life. You
and I are here now doing this interview. We could be in a
major earthquake at any time. We just don’t know. I try
to adapt to every situation. That’s the only way of survival.
But I still wish that they would get music back in the schools.
I know what it does for people. Grades are improved, I just
do what I do best. As I tell those who do the interviews,
I’m a lousy golfer and that always seems to make people
feel better because so many of them put me up on some kind
of pedestal. This disturbs me, too. So many artists will make
a great record or become very popular. All of a sudden, they
start making political statements and know how to handle everything
in life. They’ll talk about their religion. I’ll
say that about Chick (Corea). He’s a Scientologist, but
he’s never pushed that with me. I appreciate that. I
believe in whatever works in life. If being "born again"
turns you on, I’m with you 100%. If, on the other hand,
you like some other religion, my father (who had one of the
largest Lutheran churches in the country) used to say, "There
are many ways up the mountain." I’ve kind of taken
that philosophy from him.
FP: Does that idea also tie into your feeling for
discipline? People may not be aware that before you turned
to music, you were going to be a boxer! I imagine that your
parents had a strong disciplinary influence on you. Going
from the ring into music and into the performance field (with
the competitiveness and maybe the ego), there’s got to
be the drive and the discipline.
RW: A very strong discipline, desire and drive. Those
are the three things that I go by. There’s very little
difference between left of the body (making left jabs) and
left of the piano (playing the keyboard). It’s practically
the same action. I’ve always had very fast hands. When
I was in the Navy, I knew I could never be a boxing champion
because I usually won by decisions. I never had that "knockout
punch" that everybody wants to see in the first round.
If you’re going to be a successful boxer, you’ve
got to knock the guy out in the first round, as Mike Tyson
did.
FP: Speaking of items getting "knocked out",
have you noticed how we’ve lost a lot of the romance
in today’s music. Lyrics used to focus on "how beautiful
you are." In the 1970’s and onward, the words
seem to dwell on "me, me, me." Today, there
is no melody. There are only a small number of radio stations,
digital cable outlets, internet streams and satellite services
playing "beautiful" or "easy listening"
music. What are we going to do to keep this music "on
the menu" for the people that want to hear it; or for
those who haven’t discovered it quite yet?
RW: Lawrence Welk scared the heck out of me when he
said "Every time the hearse goes by, I lose another fan."
And when you ask that question, Forrest, what happens when
you and I die and today’s kids don’t have any background
regarding our kind of music? It’s pretty scary. I find
that the Asians, especially, come over and win all of our
contests. Their parents are pushing them hard. There was a
girl who appeared in a recent issue of Overture magazine.
She’s a famous cellist now. Her parents were tough on
her and she said that she hated them. It was only after she
turned eighteen that she realized that she had musical talent.
She decided to go for it. At the end of the article she mentioned
that after a long period of time, she decided to call her
parents. They had not spoken for years. She mentioned how
much she appreciated that they made her practice. So it’s
discipline, drive and (you’ve got to have the) desire.
I think you’ve got to have the desire first. In fact,
I have a big sign hanging in my studio with the three D’s:
Discipline, Drive and Desire.
FP: Not long before she passed away, I had the great
honor of interviewing Peggy Lee. As I mentioned earlier, finding
out what kind of music people personally enjoy and listen
to is like a "window to the soul." Peggy was a great
jazz singer and composer. I asked her if she had a favorite
piece of music or genre that meant something to her personally
throughout her life? She thought for a moment. I was surprised
by her answer. She said that the second movement from Mahler’s
Symphony No. 5 ("Adagietto") had profound
meaning for her. Roger, I’d like to ask you the same
question. Is there any particular piece of music that’s
been with you for all of your life that’s had an effect
or special connection and meaning for you?
RW: Yes. But it’s a mistake if I expect it to
have meaning to you. Charlie Costanza (of DO RE MI Music in
Carmel, California) came up and said "you played You’ll
Never Walk Alone yesterday while you were rehearsing and
I started to cry." Now, I don’t think it had anything
to do with the actual piece itself. He said it was his father’s
favorite song. And every time he hears it, he starts to cry
because it’s such a beautiful melody and he thinks of
his dad. People do this all the time at my concerts. I’ll
play Lara’s Theme or Yellow Bird and they
go back and remember where they first heard those songs and
who they heard it with. So it’s hard for me to say. I
love Chopin and always have. His E- Major Etude to
me is the most beautiful melody that I have ever heard. And
Chopin used to cry every time he played it. But that struck
me. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to strike you
or anybody else. I don’t play from the head. I play from
the heart.
FP: I’d like to share a comment about Roger Williams
that came from our mutual friend, music programmer (and RFS
member) Phil Stout. Years ago, when Phil was programming for
SRP in New York, you paid him a surprise visit at their office.
You gratefully acknowledged that he was playing a lot of your
recordings, but there were other items that were not being
played. You asked him what you could do or create that would
provide him with more material for airplay? Phil shared that
with me recently and commented how very special he felt that
visit was. You don’t have many musicians or artists that
will take the time to come in and ask what they can provide
for the good of the order.
RW: Well especially someone like Phil who listens
to everyone. He listens to a lot more people than I do because
that’s all he does. I’m busy practicing the piano.
But I had such respect for him that I said, "Phil, come
on and help me." I said the same thing to David Benoit.
I told him I know what I do and I like what you do. Tell me
the little things that you like that I do, and tell me how
I might do them differently. As I said, I steal from everybody
and I’m proud of it!
FP: Yesterday, I had a chance to play piano for you.
You can certainly see where I steal from!
RW: Don’t practice too much. I have enough competition!
FP: Roger, would you like to send a message to all
of the members of the Robert Farnon Society throughout the
world?
RW: I just want to congratulate you folks. You have
the best musical taste that I can imagine because you could
not pick a man who was more of a genius in what he did than
Robert Farnon. And I mean that. I still play his things all
the time. He had a certain thing and I hope he was a lousy
golfer! That makes me feel a little better.
FP: Roger Williams, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks
for being with us today. Keep on playing forever, will you?
RW: I’m going to try, friend. I’m only 84
and by the time that this interview is published, I’ll
be 85. Thank you, sir.
Forrest Patten:
This interview was two years in the making. I'd like to personally
thank several people who helped to make it happen. My deep
appreciation goes to Laura Williams Fisher (Roger's daughter),
to Charlie Costanza (DO RE MI Music, Carmel, California),
to RFS member Phil Stout, to Dina Sheets-Roth (IVI, Roger's
agent), to my wife Nancy and, of course, to Roger Williams.
This interview was published in the September 2009 edition
of "Journal Into Melody", the official magazine
of The Robert Farnon Society.
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Roger
Williams
& Forrest Patten
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Roger
Williams
& Nancy Patten
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